OMG - The Martians Are Coming - It's Time For Judges & Others to Calm Down About Artificial Intelligence

Oh my God, the Martians are invading the legal world. Have you heard? There is this new thing called "Artificial Intelligence," and lawyers apparently have it do all of their work, including filing court documents. Or so it seems. Talk about AI is everywhere.

At its core, this podcast is a plea for rationality and calmness. At another level, it points out that many lawyers and judges really don't understand artificial intelligence and are reacting to it in ways that are neither appropriate nor logical. The podcast focuses on an Order from a federal judge ordering every attorney to certify if they have used AI and, if so, to certify further that they have checked every citation in the filing.

Oops. The judge apparently doesn't know that AI has been around for many years and is used all the time, including by that mysterious website called Google. The judge apparently also doesn't know that the AI in the news is just a new version of the old AI, akin to Martian 2.0, the old, less intrusive version being AI/Martian 1.0.

Technology changes, and lawyers and judges often fear the changes. But ignoring the innovations will not help. Would anyone be happy if doctors continued to ignore MRIs because they weren't around a few years ago? Of course not.

Let's not overreact. Instead, take a few minutes to listen to Attorney Daniel J. Siegel of the Law Offices of Daniel J. Siegel, LLC and Integrated Technology Services, LLC. Dan is also Co-Chair of the Pennsylvania Bar Association Technology Committee and is a nationally-known speaker and author on technology, ethics, law practice, and more. Dan offers a  calmer, more rational look at the latest technology to scare the legal profession.

Transcript

00;00;01;16 - 00;00;37;24
Hello and welcome to the latest edition of the Legal Tech podcast. I'm attorney Daniel J. Siegel. And today's podcast is sponsored by the Law Offices of Daniel J. Siegel, LLC and Integrated Technology Services LLC. We provide assistance and legal advice on a wide range of areas, including cybersecurity, technology, ethics, law, office, workflow and more. Our law firm also provides a variety of ethics counseling for attorneys and for the public.

00;00;38;01 - 00;01;04;17
We're your neighborhood lawyer, offering everything from wills to representation in accidents and other matters. But today's podcast talks about something that's in the news, but maybe not from the perspective that everyone else is talking about it. Because here at the Legal Talk podcast, we look at things from a slightly different perspective. What I'm talking about is artificial intelligence.

00;01;05;07 - 00;01;44;13
What I'm also talking about is that artificial intelligence is nothing more or nothing less than the latest technology innovation. But like every other technology innovation, or so it seems. Artificial intelligence scares people and it scares lawyers, It scares judges, and it scares lots of people involved in the legal system. But again, you have to take a step back and recognize that artificial intelligence is new, or at least in some forms, it is new.

00;01;44;28 - 00;02;28;20
It is very powerful. And it is a tool that, like every other innovation, can make a remarkable difference in how we live, how lawyers practice, and how lawyers can assist their pay, their clients, and how judges have to deal with it. Let me take a step back for a minute and provide some context. First, we have seen the articles, heard the news reports about lawyers who have used some of the latest artificial intelligence tools in order to draft briefs and other documents at times.

00;02;29;03 - 00;03;08;26
These lawyers have proven a couple of things when they simply use artificial intelligence without recognizing what it is they blunder and what they do makes headlines. And while we have heard for years that any time you're in the news, it's good for your business, that isn't always true. For example, there was the lawyer in New York who decided that he was practicing in an area of law that he didn't know a lot about and that he would consult with GP for advice and to help him draft a brief.

00;03;09;22 - 00;03;43;20
He in fact let the site draft a brief for him and he submitted it to a judge. Never once checking the citations in the brief. Instead, he asked the website whether the citations were accurate and valid and was told by the website that they weren't. They weren't. What did we learn from that? That the lawyer was lazy. And as one judge said, many, many, many, many times I can't stand dabblers.

00;03;44;04 - 00;04;10;10
What he meant was I can't stand lawyers who are practicing in areas outside of their expertise and then come before me and really screw things up. That has happened for years. There have been innovations for years that change things and some people will learn them and use them properly. Others will make stupid mistakes. But we can't go back.

00;04;10;25 - 00;04;39;08
Nor would we. How many of you would ever want to go to a doctor who refused to order an MRI because they weren't available and didn't exist when the doctor was in medical school? How many of us with serious medical conditions would ever go to a doctor who was not willing to learn about and properly use the latest medical innovations?

00;04;39;23 - 00;05;14;23
That could be the difference between death and life. Artificial intelligence is not life and death, but it is a dramatic change, at least how it is being presented. But the problem is so many people take a very cursory view of artificial intelligence without recognizing what it is and why it is important for whatever they do and how it can help them.

00;05;15;05 - 00;05;53;23
And that's important because there was a recent news story that really epitomizes the problem. In addition to hearing about that lawyer we heard just in today's news a report about an action by a federal judge. This federal judge issued an order advising that if any attorney for a party or a pro, say, party has used artificial intelligence in the preparation of any complaint, answer motion, brief or other paper filed with the court and assigned to that judge.

00;05;54;00 - 00;06;14;29
The attorney must and the must is in all capitals and boldface in a clear and plain factual statement. Disclose that A.I. has been used in any way in the preparation of the filing, and then in all capitals boldfaced again certify that each and every citation to the law or the record in the paper has been verified as accurate.

00;06;17;22 - 00;07;03;15
I know who this judge is. I have appeared before him and I respect him respectfully. This order shows that he does not understand technology and certainly does not understand artificial intelligence, artificial intel engines is intelligence demonstrated by computers. It has been around for a very long time. I would like to ask this judge if he has ever used Google in order to find some basic concept that's in one of his opinions, like did he use it to verify the words in a rule that he quotes or something like that?

00;07;03;25 - 00;07;39;20
And I'm certain that unless he is one of the few who know never, who know, who does not use a phone, a smartphone, or the Internet, the answer is yes. And why do I say that? Because artificial intelligence isn't new. Artificial intelligence, as we're hearing it used by chat. Jeopardy is new and it will evolve. It will evolve in many ways and probably in countless ways that none of us can fathom as we sit here.

00;07;41;04 - 00;08;09;06
But saying that every attorney must certify that he or she has or has not used artificial intelligence is not an intelligent statement from a jurist whom I respect. To the contrary, it shows he is unaware of what he is talking about and either issued the order without consulting others, or perhaps those around him did not want to explain things to him.

00;08;10;22 - 00;08;52;17
Google introduced artificial intelligence into a search named Rank Brain in 2015 and since 2015 has continued to deploy artificial intelligence to better understand language and improve the search results that Google presents to its searchers. Artificial intelligence is part of the reason we have a chat box. Those bots learn from what we say and adapt in order to provide better answers to our questions and save companies the money of having to have live persons do every single chat.

00;08;53;24 - 00;09;33;17
But Google uses chat AI, artificial intelligence, and so do most of the major companies and computer companies. And they have for years. So before everyone gets upset and just jumps off the pool, the diving board at the pool into the deep end when they can't swim, we should all take a deep breath and recognize that artificial intelligence, at least as we see it now on chat ship and other sites, is new and different, but it's new and different from artificial intelligence that was here yesterday.

00;09;33;26 - 00;10;04;26
And tomorrow's versions will be different. But to ask or require every attorney to certify if they have used artificial intelligence does not accomplish anything. To the contrary, any attorney who writes a brief and doesn't consult Google, even if it's just to make sure they know that a particular rule says what it says and then that attorney doesn't certify, then the attorney isn't being candid either.

00;10;04;26 - 00;10;44;04
The court doesn't understand technology. My experience as a technology consultant, as someone who is recognized as a geek lawyer and who is chair of the Pennsylvania Bar Association Technology Committee, my perspective is that lots of people simply do not understand technology. They do not recognize what it is and what it is not. And many simply gather their insight from reading a headline or listening to a story on a TV station.

00;10;45;02 - 00;11;19;19
In between the stories about robberies and the next likely hurricane. Artificial intelligence is here to stay. It has been with us forever. What you might want to call artificial intelligence is a Martian because it is something we don't see. And yet that makes it more mysterious. We have been living with Martian version 1.0. What we are seeing now is Martian 2.0.

00;11;20;08 - 00;12;07;13
We will eventually see Martian 3.0 and more in the future. Remember, there weren't more eyes that many years ago. There are new technologies that arise or are developed or mature everywhere. But issuing an order compelling every lawyer to certify that he or she has issued has verified that if they are using artificial intelligence, does nothing except demonstrate that one judge really doesn't understand it and hasn't put in the effort to understand the concept.

00;12;08;01 - 00;12;53;13
Instead, he issued a knee jerk order that does not represent the intellect that I know he has. And by the way, the judge also ordered attorneys to check each and every citation to the law and verify that they are accurate. That is a noble order in my office. We do not use what are called string sites. Why? Because in my experience, when you see a list of citations, unless you have read every case, you will discover that many of those cases is not and does not stand for what the person who wrote it or cited it believes it stands for.

00;12;55;03 - 00;13;38;29
Requiring attorneys to actually check every citation would be a more important step in improving the quality of legal advocacy than any order asking attorneys or requiring attorneys to certify that they have used artificial intelligence, checking citations, demonstrate intelligence diligence, and can win cases for attorneys verifying that you have used Google. Probably will not get the same result. I am attorney Daniel J. Siegel.

00;13;39;16 - 00;14;13;01
This has been the Legal Tech Podcast sponsored by the Law Offices of Daniel J. Siegel, LLC. You can find us at D-A-N-I-E-L-J-S-I-E-G-E-L dot com and at TechLawyergy T-E-C-H-L-A-W-Y-E-R-G-Y dot com. Thank you for listening. I hope you have enjoyed the latest edition of the Legal Tech podcast.